The Clouds and the History of Peloponnesian War

Breaking d avouch traditions The Clouds and the history of Peloponnesian War Undeniably, the ancient classic company places a heavy stress on look on and traditions. The two texts of the Clouds by Aristophanes and History of the Peloponnesian contend by Thucydides, although contextually divergent, atomic number 18 actually c formerlyptually convergent. Both texts atomic number 18 built near the central opus of the collapse of stately value. While the division of conventional set in the History of the Peloponnesian war is submited in a much nonliteral and symbolical manner, the downfall of conventional values in the Clouds is on a more fearfulct undercoat.Although some(prenominal) texts essentially bewilder across the same solemn kernel that the relinquishment of handed-downistic values leads to majestic consequences, Aristophanes also implicitly challenges the authority of senile values, and hopes to improve upon these traditions. The Clouds by Aristophanes is a sarcastic play primarily concerned with the root word of freshly and old education. A badinage is a com stupefy or prose lend oneself to lampoon individuals or rescript. They usually charter use of ridicules and irony for the ostensible adjudicate of exposing and discouraging vice or folly.In the Clouds, viewers atomic number 18 presented with a dislocation of traditionally accepted moralistic and ethical values, especially those that argon related to education. Aristophanes is a unshakable defender of old values. Through the comedy, he wishes to demonstrate his support for logical reason out that is well rounded and grounded in possible experience. Simultaneously, Aristophanes also wants to deliver a subject to the theater audiences of fifth century that accepted philosophers, dieicularly the casuists, belowmine traditional values and thus pose as a threat to classical society.However, by intentionally satirizing the traditional model of education with t he bran- unexampled model finishedout the comedy, Aristophanes subtly refers his effect that if a traditional system were to be left unexamined, it might lose corporation of the convictions and values upon which it was founded. This also enters that Aristophanes believes the importance of review cunningicle in the Athenian society, and that with criticism, a society can be improved upon. In comparison to The History of the Peloponnesian War, there ar distinctions between the ways in which traditional values ar mortified down.In the latter, the Mytilenian debate and the Melian dialogues be establish on the war between capital of Greece and its conglomerate against the Peloponnesian League led by Sparta. It is more concerned with the ethics of war and punishments rather than education in The Clouds. hawkish sparks are ignited in the clarification of self-inte residuum, as the Spartans fear the growth of the Athenian power. Many moral judgments, as dire consequences of the wars, are debated upon. There are change magnitude political and ethical confusions in capital of Greece as a essence of the nauseate of the Mytilenians and the neutral position take up by the Melians.In the 2nd Mytilenian debate, the Athenians argue everywhere the unprecedented brutality of their actions and some dumbfound hesitant about the hurried finding to kill and enslave the citizens of Mytileans. Democracy is an all-important(prenominal) concept for the Greeks. In Cleons speech, however, he begins by questioning the worth of res publica and this instigates a breakdown in the traditional values. Personally I turn out had occasion often enough already to watch out that a republic is incapable of government activity others, and I am all the more convinced of this when I see how you are outright changing your minds about the Mytilenians. (Thuy 3. 37) Cleon believes that it is part of kind nature to revere the sinewy and take advantage of the weak, and hence he pushes for the punishment of the Mytilenians. In his speech, Cleon also employs the art of rhetoric. He stresses that the Mytilenian are more than discredited and consequently deserve the punishment since they are calculated aggressors (Thuy 36. 13). Hence, Cleon send words that the Mytilenians are non decent of the Athenians sympathy votes. such a way of railway line is a sure fire cutting of evil or innocence.Making use of rhetoric devices and compromising the mindls of democracy breach the ideals of traditions in the Greek society. Unlike that in the Clouds, Thucydides does not file any sign of flaws of the traditional values. Although based on different circumstances, the breakdown of traditional values in The History of the Peloponnesian war parallels to that in the Clouds. The Clouds also utilizes considerable use of rhetoric devices. Strepsiades decides to submit to the sophists way of education, so that he would be able to defend himself against his creditors.T he prototypical sign of erosion of traditional value is exposed when Strepsiades decides to enroll himself in the Thinkery under the guidance of Socrates. The ability to manipulate diction and turn everything into relativism erodes the principles of traditional Athenian beliefs. Indisputably, the new philosophy wins. Sophistry is the type of lingual device that, in the face of the weakness of traditional beliefs, undermines the value of anything. Strepsiades opines, Holy Earth, what a voice How divine, how awesome, how fantastic (363) In which Socrates responds, Yes, you know, these are the only real divinities, all the rest is bunkum. (365) In the new system of beliefs as advocated by the sophists, there is a rejection of the traditional religion and a belief in the new gods. The comical way through which ideas are portrayed may be witty, but the core issue lies at the heart of the plays moral indignation at what is happening in Athens. There are possibilities for that life i s macrocosm systematically deprave by the seductive power of words, of address itself. Language is now a neb of human beings, modified to accommodate human beings desires, rather than directing those desires.The underlying basis here in the Clouds is a direct correspondence to the ideas as presented in the Mytilenian debate, that traditionally held values are now being gradually eroded in the shine of self interest. As we progress on to the rest of the texts, the tension in recess traditional Greek values just intensifies. This is evident in the History of the Peloponnesian War as we advance to the Melian dialogue. The legitimate colors of human nature are exposed under desperate conditions. The Athenians have now completed the transition from democracy and are fully embracing the epitomes of imperialism.The Athenians, in a frank and matter-of-fact manner, allow the Melians an ultimatum to surrender and pay tribute to Athens, or be destroyed. The Melian dialogue also opens u p morality issues based on terminal of the Melos. Traditional democratic ideas are split up as imperialistic ideas are introduced. Our ruling of the gods and our knowledge of men lead us to conclude that it is a general and needful law of nature to rule any(prenominal) one can. (Thuy 5. 105). Abuses of traditional values are reflected throughout the dialogue as twain parties act in the light of their own self-interests.The Athenians make extensive use of rhetorical speeches in an attempt to exert their points and strangle the Melians. I quote the Athenians, You, by bighearted in, would save yourselves from disaster we, by not destroying you, would be able to profit from you (Thuy 5. 93). The use of rhetoric embodies the concept of ethical and moral relativism. It get hitched withs the core belief of the sophists that nothing is haughty and men are the measure of everything. The breakdown of traditional values is also escalate and heightened in the Clouds, as presented in t he impetuous debate between the remediate and the maltreat Arguments.The debate is a direct, head on clash of traditional values versus the new ideas. in good orders instructions are centered around traditional values such as respect, umpire and diligence. On the opposing end, abuse proposes the idea of moral and ethical relativism. This also symbolizes a debate between nomos and physis. Justice is now no longer an inborn singularity of humanity (physis), but rather a convention invented by the weaker party as a defense against the stronger (nomos) counterpart. Right and wrong are now merely matters of convention. Right Simply by presenting the case for umpire impose on _or_ oppress Itll crumble as shortly as I open my mouth. My position is that there isnt any such thing as justice Right No such thing? Wrong Well, if there is, where is it to be found? (901) In the debate, even the Right argument, who is supposed to follow the ideals of tradition, makes use of rhetoric de vices. The fundamentals of the traditional Greek society are disintegrated. Also, Pheidippides last(a) decision to choose the Wrong argument also represents the younger Athenian generations aim to modernity and discard of tradition.Although both Aristophanes and Thucydides suggest the idea of the breakdown of traditional values, Aristophanes takes it to a higher level in the Clouds. He acknowledges the faults with traditional values while at the same time criticizing the use of sophistry. He depicts the Right argument and an embarrassment that utters vacuous statements such as Be ashamed when you ought to be ashamed, ( one hundred one3). This shows that Aristophanes feels that raillery and criticism are no less(prenominal) important than traditions, as they allow the society to morph and flourish.This is different from the History of the Peloponnesian War as Thucydides simply portrays the breakdown of traditional values in a negative light. Nonetheless, both texts end on a simil ar note. The two writers present to the viewers/readers the dire consequences as upshots of breaching traditional values. In the context of the History of the Peloponnesian War, the Melians are destroyed. Also, the very undermentioned line is history begins with the decline of the Athens and the justifications of the Melos. About the same time the Argives invaded Phliasia and were ambushed by the Phliasians and the exiles from Argos, losing about eighty men. (Thuy 5. 115) Thucydides presumably wants to show the calamitous consequences of the actions of the Athenians, as a result of going against the traditions. The Athenians are also altogether defeated with the Syracusan victory. On the other hand, in the Clouds, we are presented with the protagonists (Strepsiades) frustration that leads to destruction at the end of the play. Both texts do not move us beyond their final, unsettling acts.In the case of Clouds, such a paradoxical expiration to a comedy can be interpreted as an o minous warning. loss away from the traditional values may seem ridiculously silly, especially when it is presented in the form of a comedy. However, the consequences are faraway from amusing. The very fact that there is no choral closure after the vehement of the Thinkery suggests that this ending is ironically serious. Despite the musical style differences of the texts, they are dissimilar presentations and interpretations of the same themethe breakdown of traditional Greek values.Both texts show the dire consequences as a result of breaking off from the tradition, and hence suggest the writers sense of disapproval. However, as Woody Allen once alleged, Tradition is the illusion of permanence As a society progresses, old traditions are bound to be challenged. Unlike in the History of Peloponnesian war, Aristophanes recognizes the limits of traditional values in the Clouds. While both texts show the grim effects of the breakdown, Aristophanes brings it to a whole new level. Work s Cited Aristophanes, and Alan Sommerstein. The Clouds Lysistrata And other Plays. Penguin Classics, 2002. Print. * Thucydides, and Rex Warner. History of the Peloponnesian War. London, EnglandPenguin Group, 1972. Print. * Schironi, Francesca. Thucydides Social surmise (Athenian Plague Corcyra) The Melian Dialogue. Classical Civilization hundred and one Lecture. Ann Arbor, Michigan. November 8, 2011 * Schironi, Francesca. Philosophy, Scientific Enquiry and the Greek fine Canon Classical Civilization 101 Lecture. Ann Arbor, Michigan. November 29, 2011